After reading and watching the video, please go to the week 2 blog and answer the question:
1. Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
2. Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
3. If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
4. How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, art, woodshop, PE, etc?
This question really intrigued me; initially I thought “Well yea, the better teacher ought to be paid more, regardless of experience.” The next question then, is how do you judge what makes a better teacher, or a teacher with more merit? The use of state test results is a ridiculous way to judge a teacher’s merit. School populations vary from place to place, and classrooms are diverse. State tests examine how well students are learning reading, writing, math, and science. How then does the P.E. teacher get paid? What about the ELL teacher, who teaches students who are struggling to learn and master the English language? There are already many strategies put in place to push teachers to perform better. The Annual Yearly Progress goals, alongside the repercussions if AYP is not passed, are one great motivator. While the teachers at the middle school I am working in are doing everything they can, the 5th grade students need at least 20 more students to pass to meet AYP and keep the school from facing restructure. This is a small district and over 40% of our students benefit from English Language Learning services. I don’t think our teachers’ pay ought to be docked or raised based on their students state testing performance. I also question the teacher who instructs the lower leveled math class; paying teachers based on state test results is not a good way to try to improve teacher performance. People are in the profession (generally, I hope) because they have a passion for students and learning. No one wants their students to do poorly, but there are factors outside of the teacher’s control that impact student learning and state testing. In a perfect world, I would hope there to be an accurate way to pay a teacher based on merit, but in this world I cannot think of a way that would work.
ReplyDeleteMerit based pay would also push teachers away from the low income schools with struggling populations towards schools with populations from higher socioeconomic levels who come to school more prepared, speaking the English language better, and who are more likely to have better support at home. I think that teachers are motivated by their students’ success, without the financial incentive needed. On top of that all, the special education population would need to have an entirely different standard to base merit pay upon; expecting a 5th grade student who is Intellectually Disabled to pass state standardized tests is ludicrous, and basing a teacher’s pay upon that makes no sense.
Is Merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that we need to pay merit rewards to motivate a teacher to perform well, but I do think we should offer the teachers something for their performance. I think as a teacher I’d be motivated by non-monetary rewards such as additional time off to plan and collaborate. The school could also motivate teachers by offering paid trips to conferences and time off to attend workshops to those teachers who performed well. I also wonder if it would be a motivator if the teachers were offered money to be spent in their classroom if they performed well. What teacher wouldn’t be motivated by the possibility of receiving a new laptop for their classroom?
Should Merit pay be based on student performance on their state tests?
I totally disagree with the argument that, if merit pay is given to teachers, it should be based on student performance on state tests. First of all, there are too many variables in testing. A student who performs well in school could have test anxiety and be unable to perform well on the state test or a student could be sick or preoccupied the day of the test causing them to perform lower than their potential. I feel that it is unfair to hold a teacher accountable for something that can be affected by so many variables. Secondly, in the work force, typically an individual and his boss decide together what their goals will be. Then, if the goals were met, the individual would be paid a bonus. If someone is not performing well, then the boss has the option of firing him or her. A teacher can’t fire their students for not living up to their potential nor can they choose which students they have in their classroom. They are given their classroom list and then they are asked to teach these students. To be held accountable for each student’s performance is really unfair. If we used the corporate philosophy, then maybe we should offer a bonus to the students and the teachers who perform well.
If merit pay does play a part in teacher pay, how do you pay a teacher on merit if they do not have a state test that evaluates across the state?
In the corporate world sometimes a boss is given so much money that they can give out as bonuses and then they determine how much to give each team member. I was wondering if this would work in a school system. The principal of a school is given so much money and then they have the discretion to determine how much of a bonus they give each teacher. They could base the bonus on goals that the teacher and the principal agree on at the beginning of the year and then if the goals are met, the teacher is paid a bonus. The principal could also perform a mid-year review to discuss whether or not the teachers are on track to meet their goal.
How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, art, woodshop, PE, etc?
It gets tricky when you start trying to determine how to offer merit pay for untested classes. I still think a school could offer merit pay based on individual teacher’s goals. The principal and the teacher could work together to set classroom goals at the beginning of the year and then the school could pay the teacher if they met their goals. The goals could be as simple as having so many kids pass the physical fitness test or participate in the Jump Rope for Heart program. I’m not sure if that would work, but it might be worth a try.
beth, I am pleased that you thought of ELL! And I am on board with you; while it is my instinct to approve of merit pay (capitalist conditioning, perhaps?) I consider all of the things that go into how well a teacher does that are completely outside of that teacher's control. Maybe you are an awesome teacher but the spec ed department tells you that they cannot take your newcomer student who clearly needs help (paperwork and processing...so maybe you have that student for another year even though he really needs one-on-one)--which means that he takes the test and fails miserably because he doen't have a clue what's going on. In an ideal world, you would be ready to deal with these problems as a teacher, with or without outside help, but heck, we are only just humans.
ReplyDeleteI have never been too keen on merit pay, since I think that it unfairly favors teachers in schools that already have high performance as well as favoring teachers who get students who are already academically well-adjusted (the teacher with the honors students versus the teacher who was just handed all of the 10th grade special ed students but wasn’t told beforehand that she was going to get them—then has to fight for a month with admin before she gets the assistant that she is supposed to have). I do not think that it makes teachers work harder UNLESS they are already getting such low pay that the work they do seems unfair. The guy on the youtube video states is pretty well—money is an incentive but works best when we are paid just enough to “take it off the table” so to speak. If I spend, say $25,000 or more just to get my degree, but come out making less per hour (when you consider that, especially your first years, you have to put in more than 60 hours a week, in all likelihood) than I was making per hour before spending all that money on school, then you can bet that the money becomes an issue. We all want to feel valued; if you know your company probably spends more money on toilet paper than they do on your wages, your feelings of value probably decrease. Even the teacher who really loves his or her job will get ticked off when he/she realizes that someone is trying to . . .take advantage of them. Just look at Wisconsin and Michigan if you are confused about my meaning here. We need to feel secure in our jobs and in our futures. Likewise, greater pay does not mean better performance, so we have to find a balance if we, as teachers, want to both find satisfaction in our jobs and still make a big difference in student understanding.
And how about performance on state tests? Would merit pay mean that the teacher who teaches ESL science will make less because her students will probably all fail their tests the first time around while the “regular” science content teacher’s students pass? I agree that there needs to be a way to evaluate teachers to ensure that we are achieving efficiency, but I simply don’t think state tests are the best way to do it—the same way I don’t think that state tests are a measure of real knowledge. Perhaps overall school successes could be celebrated with school-wide bonuses? Or for teachers who put in extra time?
I am reminded of the Dilbert principle, where he proposes that it is the people who could potentially cause the most damage to the company that are promoted to positions where they can do no harm--management. If we somehow imagine that designing our schools on our business practices is going to work out for us in the long run, then we're going to have to remember that businesses get rid of worthless employees--so, if your school is a business, and the students are employees, then the goal is not inclusion but is in fact, exclusion.
Trefethen S.
Kathleen,
ReplyDeleteI also like that you mention that awarding for performance doesn't have to mean pay. It can also mean little things, like making sure that your input is considered, and by not punishing you for being a great teacher.
I just thought that was a keen observation on your part.
Also, interesting idea for merit pay of teachers in P.E. and band, etc. I couldn't think of an answer for this one, except to think that you could always involve some sort of "informal" student survey that determines whether or not the teacher is being flexible to student needs. I think your idea is much better, although it is difficult to set goals when you are first starting!
Trefethen S.
I don't think that merit pay is needed to motivate teachers. I think that if you have a job you should do it to the best of your ability. Also, if you do have a job there should be somebody that is monitoring your success and if your work isn't up to the standard then you should be fired. You don't need a bonus to do the job you are already payed to do. Personally, I would love a bonus if my students were successful, but I would hope over my career that I would work hard and do my best to help my students succeed whether I got a bonus or not.
ReplyDeleteIf merit pay were put into action, I don't think there would be any other way to base it than on standardized testing. You can't do it by class grades or test scores because every teacher would make their class easy and give everyone A's. I don't necessarily agree that state testing is the best option, but some form of standardized testing would have to be used to determine how well each student is doing.
If merit pay is used as a part of teacher salary, then whatever standardized test (like a talked about above) is used should be used for everyone in the state and all bonuses should be equal no matter what school you teach at. This can be a way to encourage underpaid teachers to work harder. I also feel that if it is based on state testing then it has to be funded by the state and available to all schools (I guess there would be exceptions for special schools). If it is based on individual schools standardized tests then the school should pay for it.
Merit pay for teachers in untestable classes could be based on participation or competition. If it is based on participation then the pay would be determined by the percentage of students in the school that participate. Most of these subjects are choice and not forced upon the students so that would be a decent way to do it. I prefer doing it by competition because I am a competitive person. Each school could be pitted into competitions and form their best teams based on the students participatiing in class. Each class could present something to the state (a project) to be graded and judges could decide who is the best. For example, choirs/bands/orchestras could have a state competition based on class level and each teacher would get bonuses based on how well they placed. Art programs could have all students in art classes do a painting, drawing, and sculpture; the teacher would pick the best one and submit it to the state competition. Judges would choose the winner in all of these which makes it biased, but whoever is in charge would have to make sure that everything is fair. I would hope that anyone involved would be unbiased but you never know.
Jeremy, do you think merit pay would cause schools to "recruit" for higher performers, particularly in the untestable classes? I wonder how private schools would look at this; they are able to recruit by providing scholarships and price cuts. Public schools would have little in the way of incentives to bring the high performers in athletic competitions or music department.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if this idea would cause the exclusion Sarah talked about. You would only want the best musicians and singers in your choir; you would potentially exclude those that are not as good and that might hinder your competition. Similarly with the P.E. programs; would you only allow it as an elective to those who are athletic? Are the other students not the other ones that need it the most? I really appreciate your point of view, these are just some of the things I was wondering about as I read through it.
1. Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
ReplyDeleteWell, after reading the original article I thought about this for a few days and went back and forth on the subject. To be sure, there are pros and cons for each side. In the end I'm still not convinced either way. On the one hand there is a motivational factor that can't be denied. I understand teachers are supposed to be passionate about their work and all that, but in the end there will still be teachers out there who have lost their motivation and are burned-out. If we can't re-spark their interest perhaps we can offer merrit pay to motivate them? So I would say merrit pay is needed for SOME teachers, the others who teach out of love will continue to teach out of love and whatever merrit pay comes their way is a bonus.
2. Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
This is tricky since state tests differ, but if we are going to have merrit pay then we must have clear benchmarks. A state test, despite its flaws, is one of the clear ways to measure a student's performance.
3. If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
I can't think of a way to measure teacher performance that is 100% fair. Yes, one can't control who walks through the classroom door, so perhaps another way worth looking into is not the scores themselves, but the IMPROVEMENT in scores (i.e. a classroom in a poor district with historically low scores might still score below the national average but if a teacher can show an overall improvement then they should be rewareded for their efforts).
4. How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, art, woodshop, PE, etc?
I would like to see a committee consisting of fellow band,art,etc. teachers, students, and parents. They would establish clear guidelines for evaluating teacher performance. This way the teacher would be judged by their fellow professionals, their peers, their students, and parents of their students.
Kathleen,
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the band/art/etc teacher developing goals with the principal. I can see this actually being implemented in the future if merrit pay catches on. Arranging pre-determined goals and benchmarks could prove to the princepal and school boards that the teacher is competent and deserves added pay.
-Roman
Beth,
ReplyDeleteYou make a strong case about the possibility of teachers avoiding low-income schols. Some might want to go there to teach out of compassion, for social justice, to repay students loans, and so on, but they might think twice if it become less feasible economically speaking.
-Roman
Roman,
ReplyDeleteI think you hit on something important with looking more specifically at the improvement on state test scores. If you can show improvement, the playing field levels out a lot. Many of the students served by SpEd (those that take the standard test w/ accommodations) are not expected to pass the tests, but goals are set for the gains they would like to see.
I also like the idea of a committee made up with more than just admin or teachers, but including community members to determine goals for un-tested subjects; I'm just curious what types of goals would be set.
1. Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
ReplyDeleteI do not think that merit pay is needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school. Teachers are already working hard to make sure that their students are achieving without the merit pay so how could you possibly make them work any harder than they are. Most of the time teacher are working longer than the 40 hours a week that they are paid for. Most teachers are working 60+ hours a week at 40 hours a week pay so how could it possibly make them work harder. Teachers are not teaching for the money, they are teaching to help their students.
2. Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
Merit pay should not be based on student performance on state tests, due to the fact that not all classes have state tests, such as PE, music, etc. The teachers of these classes would be being paid while other teachers would have to work harder to receive the same pay. That could cause conflict with in the school. Another issue is that in the school I work with the students go to different reading and math teachers that are different then their homeroom teachers. Who gets credit for the passing of the state tests, their homeroom teacher or the teacher who is teaching them the subjects? They have separate reading groups, such as intensive which would be unfair to the teacher that is getting only students who are struggling.
3. If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
This brings up another concern because what if different schools have different levels of achievement based on the economics in the area. If you are talking about a low income title one school versus a high level economy neighborhood with a high level school and they are taking the same tests and then the levels are obviously different in both schools. If you are basing the teachers’ salaries based on the tests then the school that has the higher test scores would have better paid teachers. Well then most likely it would be the higher income area which would make it hard for you to find teachers to work in title one schools and then you are just continuing the cycle.
4. How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, choir, art, woodshop, PE, etc.
In order to address the issue of merit pay for teachers in untested classes, the school or district may have to set standards for this classroom. The school could determine what they want the students to learn and achieve in these classes and then provide proof of that learning.
Sarah Miller
I do not think that state test scores is a good way to bade teacher pay. As an incoming teacher I have already had conflict with the idea of teaching to a test. One of the teachers I discussed this idea with told me that the scores themselves are not her goal as much as doing her best to help the students grow as much as possible per student within their year. Many of her students enter her classroom not able to pass state tests the previous year and are exceeding when they leave her classroom. Others meet, or almost meet when they leave her classroom but when you compare their scores to the year before, they have grown immensely. At that point how could a teacher even consider being “disappointed” or feeling guilty for not getting them to pass the test? Their growth is clearly significant. As the video said, if it is not and “if, then” situation (which teaching has way too many variables to fall into that category) where the incentive is given, performance actually decreases. I think this could be detrimental to our classrooms because teachers would panic about meeting the test standards in a way that would cause less genuine learning in the classroom.
ReplyDeleteI guess if teachers were getting paid enough money to take the issue of money off the table, and then, offered bonuses for students passing tests; it would be less detrimental because it would be an extra. But how does that work across a district? If a teacher is teaching in a rougher area, where test scores are lower when they come into their classroom, then they are not getting the same opportunity as teachers on the other side of town who have almost all of the students passing as they enter that teacher’s classroom.
If merit pay was instated, I think they would have to make up a way of testing for the other classes. Okay, and now I am going to say something totally crazy, do not attack me- but if they are paying for the students to be meeting testing standards they are saying that’s all that really matters- good test scores. So why should the other classes, that students are not state tested in get any bonuses?
Hi Beth, I definitely agree with you that merit pay would dissuade teachers from taking jobs in low income schools. How demotivating to want to help children in low income areas learn vital skills and be told that you can’t make as much money as a teacher in a high income area where all students perform well on state assessment tests. We need the best and brightest teachers helping ELL students and students attending low income schools to get ahead. Maybe we should be offering the incentives to teachers taking these more challenging jobs.
ReplyDeleteMerit pay...bad idea. I have to believe with the comment in the AP article that says that we have no control over they type of student that walks into our classroom each day. A friend of mine teaches fourth grade and she was looking through writing standards and noticed something to the effect that students passing the fourth grade need to be able to write three paragraphs on a topic.
ReplyDeleteAny good elementary teacher can teach students how to do this if the student has the requisite skills of being able to write words and put those words into complete sentences. My friend got students that were unable to write complete sentences. Telling her that it's her fault they not only do they not meet state standards during the first round of testing in October, but that they aren't even remotely close is ludicrous.
Likewise, if I were to get a sophomore in pre-algebra (perhaps a student on an IEP for mathematics), there is almost no chance that they will be able to meet the state standards in mathematics for the sophomore test. This isn't saying that I'm a horrible teacher and that I should be flogged, but that the student that I got just wasn't properly prepared for the test.
The merit bonus of $2000 is more money than I make in a month teaching. (Small district, small paycheck, but I love it nonetheless). I think the same thing would happen to me that happened in the video if I was offered a month's salary if my students did well on a performance exam...I would fail and fail miserably.
This study http://tinyurl.com/3rpyyrz, is somewhat supportive when it says that merit pay had no effect on student achievement.
As far as band, PE, art, shop go…with band you could evaluate based on knowledge of theory. However theory taught during a traditional band class is quite light and there are not any state standards that even relate to music. There are standards that relate to art, but they are very vague and I think would therefore be hard to test. Shop, there are regional standards (I was on the board that created them), but testing is still being…um…tested (the same board created a pilot exam in March). These content areas are really just hard to test. Making merit pay an item on the table would cause inequity for these teachers.
To directly answer the three questions for the week…
1. Merit pay isn’t needed to motivate teachers to work harder in schools, motivation needs to come from something that the teacher wants…other than money.
2. Basing merit pay on student state test performance is not reasonable for all or even most cases.
3. If there isn’t a state test that exists, you need to create a test. Preferably, the ESD would put together a board and that board would come to a consensus on that test.
Beth Peters,
ReplyDeleteThank you for thinking about other factors such as socioeconomic, high poverty rates, and ELL factors. I will tell you that when I started my teaching career, we had a small ELL population. Now, we have a very large and growing ELL population. We are in restructuring now and hopefully we will be able to pass AYP for a second year in a row and will be out of sanctions and start fresh. I will tell you our biggest problem in meeting is our ELL sub population and our SPED students. We have improved greatly in our meets in math and reading, but still are not cutting AYP with the sub-categories. How then do you rate teacher pay based on meeting AYP? We consistently show growth in our schools, but can't meet AYP because of other factors outside of the classroom. Thank you for sharing.
“Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?” This is a trick question. I feel that if you need merit pay to work harder as a teacher then you probably are lacking the internal motivation that you are trying to teach to your students. Um, which would equate to a marriage counselor having an affair with their clients seeking help. . .in a weird and twisted way. Of course I think hard work and success should be compensated. I think the bigger question lies in how to get rid of lagging unmotivated teachers without a lawsuit- but this isn’t the blog question. It’s your job to teach effectively. I work at a bank- it’s my JOB to open new accounts and to take deposits, that is what I get paid for. So should I get more money because I opened 8 accounts today? No, that is my J-O-B. If a client comes in to open an account and I yawn, and whine, and eventually fiddle around and get the job done. Should I be paid, yes & given my pink slip to find a job where I am motivated to perform.
ReplyDeleteShould merit pay be based on student performance on their state tests? I don’t see how this could be done honestly and effectively. I think if we went back to Laura Ingles day and had the same teacher for 12 years and then paid them for their final result would be an idea. Or if I were in charge- my hypothetical idea is that teaching is more commission based. Each teacher that has a hand in formulating how this student pays out is gives shares. The shares are paid out according to how successful the student is. If you taught Bill Gates for example, well, you could retire because the kick-backs and royalties are fantastic. Some students squeak by in life and they are a wash. BUT say you had the student that ended up being a sloth sucking off the states dollar and was not a contributor to society, well, you had a hand in that too- and must help support this past student. Either A- You wouldn’t find any teachers willing to tackle the challenge, or B You’d find some fantastic teachers out there really investing in student’s lives for the long haul. So to answer the question, NO I don’t think pay should be based on STATE tests. That is their job to have students perform on state tests. Now, if your student gets a full ride to Harvard, a tip from the parents would be nice- I’d like a cruise.
My idea would still work with PE, Art, Band. If you were Michael Jordan’s PE teacher, you might be part owner of the Wizards!
Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school? Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely not. I think budget cuts and impeding lay-offs are doing a fine job of creating a competitive teaching field. Perhaps more than most fields, teachers do not go into the field because they have some delusion that they will run away with a large fortune every year. The profession itself, for those who come by it honestly, begs for autonomy and a sense of making a difference. Budget cuts are leading to mini-crisis for teachers across the state. During my pre-student teaching observation time at West Salem High School, I have heard many conversations between staff (both in the classroom and in the staff room) about whether they will have a job or not. As a student of teaching, this could easily send me running to an option that doesn’t involve graduate school debt and no job guarantee, but it doesn’t. I want mastery, autonomy, and to make a difference. I felt like screaming at the YouTube video, “You get me!” There are a lot of really great teachers out there and I don’t know many of them who feel “motivated” by a small raise at the expense of laying of three of their co-workers. I know Duvernay (from the article) felt motivated by the financial incentive, but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
As Gunter (from the article) points out, some schools will have students that come from varying situations: higher economic status, higher rates of English speakers, smaller populations of students with disabilities, etc. The research is inconclusive and can research really control all of the variables? We are experiencing an economic hardship in the U.S. Students are affected, but so are teachers. What happens when the economy turns around? Will teachers be motivated the same? I think we need to find motivation that is sustainable, as well as internal. How can we give any teachers more money when we don’t have the budget to keep enough teachers on staff to keep class sizes down? On top of everything, some research points to students being motivated by other things and only part of the teaching staff being motivated by monetary incentives.
If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
I don’t think state testing is an accurate assessment for teacher performance. It is certainly one measure, but not the only measure. One science teacher I talked to stated that he wasn’t against standardized testing, he just wished it wouldn’t change every year. It’s hard to prepare well and learn as a teacher if what is expected of you changes annually. Maybe it’s reasonable every five years, or ten, but every year or two?!
It’s also notable that there is federal grant money incentive for these programs and that is hard to ignore when we are experiencing budget cuts. Whether the programs are effective or not, adopting them has its short-term rewards. This is difficult to turn away from.
How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, art, woodshop, PE, etc?
If it were necessary to implement merit pay, this would be a difficult to work around. Perhaps there would be some agreement between teachers in elective classes to incorporate part of standardized testing into their classes. Woodshop teachers would be required to demonstrate how they are using geometry in their curriculum (directly linked to state requirements), art instructors would have to link their class work to social studies criteria, and so on.
Posted by Elli Kataura to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 10, 2011 10:05 PM
I don't think that merit pay is needed to motivate teachers. I think that if you have a job you should do it to the best of your ability. Also, if you do have a job there should be somebody that is monitoring your success and if your work isn't up to the standard then you should be fired. You don't need a bonus to do the job you are already payed to do. Personally, I would love a bonus if my students were successful, but I would hope over my career that I would work hard and do my best to help my students succeed whether I got a bonus or not.
ReplyDeleteIf merit pay were put into action, I don't think there would be any other way to base it than on standardized testing. You can't do it by class grades or test scores because every teacher would make their class easy and give everyone A's. I don't necessarily agree that state testing is the best option, but some form of standardized testing would have to be used to determine how well each student is doing.
If merit pay is used as a part of teacher salary, then whatever standardized test (like a talked about above) is used should be used for everyone in the state and all bonuses should be equal no matter what school you teach at. This can be a way to encourage underpaid teachers to work harder. I also feel that if it is based on state testing then it has to be funded by the state and available to all schools (I guess there would be exceptions for special schools). If it is based on individual schools standardized tests then the school should pay for it.
Merit pay for teachers in untestable classes could be based on participation or competition. If it is based on participation then the pay would be determined by the percentage of students in the school that participate. Most of these subjects are choice and not forced upon the students so that would be a decent way to do it. I prefer doing it by competition because I am a competitive person. Each school could be pitted into competitions and form their best teams based on the students participatiing in class. Each class could present something to the state (a project) to be graded and judges could decide who is the best. For example, choirs/bands/orchestras could have a state competition based on class level and each teacher would get bonuses based on how well they placed. Art programs could have all students in art classes do a painting, drawing, and sculpture; the teacher would pick the best one and submit it to the state competition. Judges would choose the winner in all of these which makes it biased, but whoever is in charge would have to make sure that everything is fair. I would hope that anyone involved would be unbiased but you never know.
Posted by Jeremiah Milliron to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 3:16 PM
Jeremy,
ReplyDeleteDo you think merit pay would cause schools to "recruit" for higher performers, particularly in the untestable classes? I wonder how private schools would look at this; they are able to recruit by providing scholarships and price cuts. Public schools would have little in the way of incentives to bring the high performers in athletic competitions or music department.
I also wonder if this idea would cause the exclusion Sarah talked about. You would only want the best musicians and singers in your choir; you would potentially exclude those that are not as good and that might hinder your competition. Similarly with the P.E. programs; would you only allow it as an elective to those who are athletic? Are the other students not the other ones that need it the most? I really appreciate your point of view, these are just some of the things I was wondering about as I read through it.
1. Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
ReplyDeleteWell, after reading the original article I thought about this for a few days and went back and forth on the subject. To be sure, there are pros and cons for each side. In the end I'm still not convinced either way. On the one hand there is a motivational factor that can't be denied. I understand teachers are supposed to be passionate about their work and all that, but in the end there will still be teachers out there who have lost their motivation and are burned-out. If we can't re-spark their interest perhaps we can offer merrit pay to motivate them? So I would say merrit pay is needed for SOME teachers, the others who teach out of love will continue to teach out of love and whatever merrit pay comes their way is a bonus.
2. Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
This is tricky since state tests differ, but if we are going to have merrit pay then we must have clear benchmarks. A state test, despite its flaws, is one of the clear ways to measure a student's performance.
3. If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
I can't think of a way to measure teacher performance that is 100% fair. Yes, one can't control who walks through the classroom door, so perhaps another way worth looking into is not the scores themselves, but the IMPROVEMENT in scores (i.e. a classroom in a poor district with historically low scores might still score below the national average but if a teacher can show an overall improvement then they should be rewareded for their efforts).
4. How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, art, woodshop, PE, etc?
I would like to see a committee consisting of fellow band,art,etc. teachers, students, and parents. They would establish clear guidelines for evaluating teacher performance. This way the teacher would be judged by their fellow professionals, their peers, their students, and parents of their students.
Posted by rshapla to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 7:59 PM
Kathleen,
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the band/art/etc teacher developing goals with the principal. I can see this actually being implemented in the future if merrit pay catches on. Arranging pre-determined goals and benchmarks could prove to the princepal and school boards that the teacher is competent and deserves added pay.
-Roman
Posted by rshapla to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 8:06 PM
Beth,
ReplyDeleteYou make a strong case about the possibility of teachers avoiding low-income schols. Some might want to go there to teach out of compassion, for social justice, to repay students loans, and so on, but they might think twice if it become less feasible economically speaking.
-Roman
Posted by rshapla to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 8:11 PM
Roman,
ReplyDeleteI think you hit on something important with looking more specifically at the improvement on state test scores. If you can show improvement, the playing field levels out a lot. Many of the students served by SpEd (those that take the standard test w/ accommodations) are not expected to pass the tests, but goals are set for the gains they would like to see.
I also like the idea of a committee made up with more than just admin or teachers, but including community members to determine goals for un-tested subjects; I'm just curious what types of goals would be set.
Posted by Beth Peters to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 8:25 PM
1. Is merit pay needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school?
ReplyDeleteI do not think that merit pay is needed to motivate teachers to work harder in school. Teachers are already working hard to make sure that their students are achieving without the merit pay so how could you possibly make them work any harder than they are. Most of the time teacher are working longer than the 40 hours a week that they are paid for. Most teachers are working 60+ hours a week at 40 hours a week pay so how could it possibly make them work harder. Teachers are not teaching for the money, they are teaching to help their students.
2. Should merit pay be based on student performance on state tests?
Merit pay should not be based on student performance on state tests, due to the fact that not all classes have state tests, such as PE, music, etc. The teachers of these classes would be being paid while other teachers would have to work harder to receive the same pay. That could cause conflict with in the school. Another issue is that in the school I work with the students go to different reading and math teachers that are different then their homeroom teachers. Who gets credit for the passing of the state tests, their homeroom teacher or the teacher who is teaching them the subjects? They have separate reading groups, such as intensive which would be unfair to the teacher that is getting only students who are struggling.
3. If merit pay plays a part in teacher salaries, should teacher pay be based on state tests used across the state?
This brings up another concern because what if different schools have different levels of achievement based on the economics in the area. If you are talking about a low income title one school versus a high level economy neighborhood with a high level school and they are taking the same tests and then the levels are obviously different in both schools. If you are basing the teachers’ salaries based on the tests then the school that has the higher test scores would have better paid teachers. Well then most likely it would be the higher income area which would make it hard for you to find teachers to work in title one schools and then you are just continuing the cycle.
4. How would you address merit pay for teachers in untested classes such as band, choir, art, woodshop, PE, etc.
In order to address the issue of merit pay for teachers in untested classes, the school or district may have to set standards for this classroom. The school could determine what they want the students to learn and achieve in these classes and then provide proof of that learning.
Sarah Miller
Posted by samiller to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 9:55 PM
Hi Beth,
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you that merit pay would dissuade teachers from taking jobs in low income schools. How demotivating to want to help children in low income areas learn vital skills and be told that you can’t make as much money as a teacher in a high income area where all students perform well on state assessment tests. We need the best and brightest teachers helping ELL students and students attending low income schools to get ahead. Maybe we should be offering the incentives to teachers taking these more challenging jobs.
Posted by kathleen to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 10:48 PM
Merit pay...bad idea. I have to believe with the comment in the AP article that says that we have no control over they type of student that walks into our classroom each day. A friend of mine teaches fourth grade and she was looking through writing standards and noticed something to the effect that students passing the fourth grade need to be able to write three paragraphs on a topic.
ReplyDeleteAny good elementary teacher can teach students how to do this if the student has the requisite skills of being able to write words and put those words into complete sentences. My friend got students that were unable to write complete sentences. Telling her that it's her fault they not only do they not meet state standards during the first round of testing in October, but that they aren't even remotely close is ludicrous.
Likewise, if I were to get a sophomore in pre-algebra (perhaps a student on an IEP for mathematics), there is almost no chance that they will be able to meet the state standards in mathematics for the sophomore test. This isn't saying that I'm a horrible teacher and that I should be flogged, but that the student that I got just wasn't properly prepared for the test.
The merit bonus of $2000 is more money than I make in a month teaching. (Small district, small paycheck, but I love it nonetheless). I think the same thing would happen to me that happened in the video if I was offered a month's salary if my students did well on a performance exam...I would fail and fail miserably.
This study http://tinyurl.com/3rpyyrz, is somewhat supportive when it says that merit pay had no effect on student achievement.
As far as band, PE, art, shop go…with band you could evaluate based on knowledge of theory. However theory taught during a traditional band class is quite light and there are not any state standards that even relate to music. There are standards that relate to art, but they are very vague and I think would therefore be hard to test. Shop, there are regional standards (I was on the board that created them), but testing is still being…um…tested (the same board created a pilot exam in March). These content areas are really just hard to test. Making merit pay an item on the table would cause inequity for these teachers.
To directly answer the three questions for the week…
1. Merit pay isn’t needed to motivate teachers to work harder in schools, motivation needs to come from something that the teacher wants…other than money.
2. Basing merit pay on student state test performance is not reasonable for all or even most cases.
3. If there isn’t a state test that exists, you need to create a test. Preferably, the ESD would put together a board and that board would come to a consensus on that test.
Posted by aaronlongo to Willamette ED 520 Spring 2011 at May 11, 2011 11:37 PM
Hi Jeremiah,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comments regarding merit pay. It's funny because the company I worked for always paid great bonuses to everyone at the end of the year. These bonuses were tied to goals, but the goals always seemed to follow the person’s job description and the goals weren’t anything that a person needed to put in extra effort to obtain. Then my company totally re-evaluated how they paid bonuses and decided that everyone needed to develop “stretch” goals that went above and beyond their job expectations. Well, everyone was up in arms the first year this went into effect because they had come to expect the bonus as part of their salary, not something they had to work for. Now the system works really well. Think if schools are going to pay merit bonuses they need to be tied to something that a teacher has to work for otherwise they might as well just give the teacher a raise. I also agree with you that a teacher’s job performance needs to be evaluated every year and that they should meet certain expectations or be put on probation.
Great comments!
Kathleen
Hi Aaron,
ReplyDeleteYou make a valid point. Teachers don’t have any control over the students that enter their classroom AND they are relying on the previous teacher to have done their job. I think it gets very political too. My friend teaches third grade in Newark, New Jersey and she consistently gets students into her classroom that don’t meet the standards at the beginning of the year. In her opinion, these students should have been held back, but they weren’t. T that point she’s trying to get these kids up to speed which sometimes takes away from teaching the other students. Of course when the end of the year comes, she has a really tough time deciding whether to pass these kids or not. Like the teacher before her, she doesn’t want to have to make that decision and sometimes passes a student to the next grade for that teacher to help.
Kathleen
In debates such as these, it seems to be forgotten that teachers, while important, are not the only factor in student success. Students tend to be more successful at well-funded, well-resourced schools; at such schools, parents are more likely to have the time to volunteer in the classroom and help students study at home, and teachers are more likely to have technology and resources (such as computers) to make content more interesting and accessible to students. This all means that, even if there are fantastic and talented teachers at a Title I school, their students will not all have the same high test scores as their wealthier peers in a higher-income school. The school that I work at is a perfect example of this. There are many amazing teachers on the staff who have received awards for their teaching and/or are National Board certified, yet they still have students who cannot reach the standards. One such child is a third-grader who informed me that he can’t really read because his mother, who is illiterate in English and speaks mostly Spanish, is unable to help him at home. It is interesting that this young boy could make the connection that a lot of our learning, particularly of basics such as reading and writing, happen in the home instead of the classroom, yet policy-makers do not realize this. I am confident that if the teachers at my school and those of a school in a higher-income area were switched, the test scores at both schools would go unchanged. Students at the higher-income school would continue to be successful, while those at the Title I school would in large part still be unable to meet the standards for their grade level.
ReplyDeleteWhen I look at the teachers at my Title I school, many of whom stay until 7 or 8pm at night, I think that they could not possibly give any more of themselves and their time than they already do. Earning more money is definitely a motivator, but for teachers who are already giving everything they can and not getting every child to benchmark, I do not see that it would help. I do think that if there are teachers who are not putting in much effort a bonus could be a great motivator, but it may just frustrate those who are working hard and not feeling successful. Teacher’s pay should not be based on student performance on state tests because they are not the only factor in students’ test scores. If the school, community, and parents are unable to provide the support students need to succeed, a teacher is hard pressed to overcome these extrinsic factors and the odds of a child reaching the standards are not good. I am concerned that if teachers were to be paid based on students’ test scores nobody would want to teach at low-income schools. Everyone would want to be at well-funded, well-resourced schools where parents can afford extra outside tutoring and have the time to read and work with their children at home, where classrooms are equipped with the latest technologies, and where teachers do not have to reach into their own bank accounts to provide students with simple tools such as glue and pencils. The system of merit-pay is designed to motivate teachers to work harder, but it may just expose the inequities of our school system and motivate teachers to move to schools where students are already set up to succeed, rather than those where students and teachers must fight to beat the odds.
Another issue of basing pay and bonuses on state standards are classes where there are no standards for student achievement, such as choir, band, and PE. If a merit pay were to go into effect, these areas need a set of standards and expectations for each grade level. Then student abilities can be assessed the same way they are for other areas, and then whether or not they meet the standards could be used to determine how effective teachers are. “Success” needs to be clearly defined for students and teachers so it can be seen if a teacher earned a bonus.
Erin
Hi Aaron,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree – what students bring into the classroom in terms of their abilities and outside supports have a huge impact on what they are able to achieve. Learning is structured so that each year, the standards and expectations build on the previous year’s work. If the student did not learn what they needed to in the previous year or years, they will not be set up to learn and succeed with their grade level content. It is like building a house on a weak foundation. Since what a teacher and their students are able to do is based on so much more than the teacher, it seems silly to attribute student success entirely to the teacher and to decide whether or not a teacher earns a bonus based on student success. I also agree that motivation is best when it comes from a place less selfish than wanting more money. As the RSA video suggested, people work harder and are more creative when their motivation comes of having a meaningful purpose and/or wanting to make their mark on the world.
Erin
Hi Roman,
ReplyDeleteYou make an interesting point to say that merit pay could work as a motivator for some teacher. It is true that, like their students, teachers come from different backgrounds and have different views of the world. This means that what works for or motivates one teacher may not do the same for another. On the other hand, if a system like merit pay was established, then it would have to be applied to all teachers to be fair; it could not be set in placed for some, and then tell the others, “Oh, you have enough intrinsic motivations to succeed, so you do not need this extrinsic motivator.” I really like your idea of assessing teachers (and student success) based on their improvement, rather than on whether or not they meet state standards. Many students do not meet state standards, and it has more to do with their lack of prior knowledge and outside supports than because their teacher is doing something wrong! Measuring teacher effectiveness by looking for progress makes more sense; not all students begin at the same place so it is crazy to expect them all to magically end up at the same benchmark. If a teacher has a student who begins the year at grade level and ends at grade level and another teacher has a student who begins three grade levels behind but ends one grade level behind, it is obvious that the second teacher has made more progress; however, with the current form of evaluation we only see that the first teacher has a student on grade level, and the second has a student who is below grade level. This view needs to change.
Erin
Hi Sarah M. – I also pointed out that most teachers do not teach for the paycheck. I hadn’t noted (but hopefully implied) that teachers are working significantly longer hours than they are paid for.
ReplyDeleteI also like that you pointed out the conflict schools could encounter because of merit pay based on state testing. I hadn’t really thought about how other teachers would feel about each other, merely I had pointed out that this wasn’t a way you could measure subjects untested by state standards. You point out that teachers have different classroom make up, some have more difficult students. I wonder, what do schools do to try to balance classrooms? Do they put thought into classroom make up before classrooms are set? Is this based on test scores, performance in the class? Performance in the classroom will be measured by different people, so they wouldn’t be measured the same way without diligent effort to streamline the assessment.
Finally, I really love that you point out how this approach could (and likely would) create a cycle of Title 1 school failure because of any number of things, including teacher turnover.
Hi Erin – I’m glad you point out the resources available to students as being a major factor in their ability to succeed. Teachers can do amazing things. We are lucky to have the opportunity to help shape young people and give them the education they need. However, we are not able (even if willing) to give students some of the most critical things in their lives, things like shelter and adequate health care. Schools are getting better at accessing dental services at the schools and free clinic notices going out to parents, but there is so much to be done for some of these families. I agree with your scenario, that if teachers at your school and another school with higher socioeconomic make-up switched, the scores would remain essential the same. So that, of course, begs the question of what should be done. What can be done to change this?
ReplyDeleteIt looks like you and I (and Sarah M. and many others!) agree that most teachers work far more than their work week pays them. I’m always seeing my family members (many of whom are teachers and principals and administrators) working during Thanksgiving, Sunday diners, etc. What they can do, they are doing!
Hi Elli- I agree with you on all points. Our small dist. just cut 9 jobs- one of which is the Elem. Principal, the HS principal resigned last night. . . the net budget is the same after the severe cuts once current teachers raises and pers are factored in for next year. So not sure what will happen next year. On line school for everyone? So I don't know either how merit pay can even play a factor since so many districts are buried already.
ReplyDeleteI did love the idea of including geometry in woodshop and the other ideas you had. NICE!
.
ReplyDeleteOpps, hit the wrong button.
ReplyDeleteAaron, might it work to test the students on day one and each student has to be X percentage "better" by the end of the class? Perhaps in a perfect world it would work. I suppose that teachers woud sabatoge their first work to enable them the edge to have a higher percentage. . .similar to drinking a gallon of water before weigh your base line weight. . .so next week you will be at least 7 pounds lighter.
I'm not implying that I am for merit pay at all- but to gage how students learn and if. . .how much, etc.
Becky,
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you that teachers don’t need to get incentives for their student’s success because that is what they are getting paid to do. Your job is to get students to succeed. I think it would be great to get more money for that, but either way that should be your goal. Your idea about your final student’s success is great. It would never happen, but it would be in a way kind of like college. You would recruit or accept students and then teach them for many years and then make money off of their success. You would basically be investing in the students over their lifetime. Interesting. I would be up for something like that, but I don’t think school could ever work that way and it sounds like you don’t either. You are very passionate about these issues.
Roman,
I think your logic makes sense about merit pay, but if a teacher is burned out and lacks motivation to do their job should they even have one? In any other job if you don’t do it up to par you would be fired. When you are teaching children and shaping their future, those standards should be even higher. I understand that it is hard to be passionate about something for many years, but you should still be held to certain standards. I agree with you about state tests. They have to be the benchmark until we find something else that is more useful. People complain about it, but you never hear a better solution to follow it. I always remember for math that the only state testing we ever did were these problem solving things that were graded. Most teachers were spending a lot of time teaching to these tests, but they often weren’t relevant to the course they were teaching. I would think that there is a better way to do it. Problem solving is important, but it isn’t the only thing you learn in math.
I don't know how else to respond to posts except to post again and say who I am talking to. I asked our teacher and have yet to hear from him. If anyone has some insight into this I would appreciate it.
Elli,
ReplyDeleteAs primarily an elective teacher, I know what it's like to wonder about my job status next year. I'm fortunate enough to only be losing one period next fall. Despite the OEA encouraging local unions to cut newer teachers in lieu of furlough days, we decided to just take days without pay. Our staff places a high value on each other and don't want to see our already small school get any smaller...even if it means a little extra coin in our pockets.
I see where you are coming from with your comment about assessing electives. The point of contention that I have however is that even though woodworking and metalworking have inherent analytical geometry, they are far more complicated that simple mathematics. Laying out a dado is completely different than laying out a half-blind dovetail. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Or trying to assess a calculus class by having the students take a timed addition test. It's just not assessing what learning is happening in the class well enough.
Becky,
ReplyDeleteI use EasyCBM to do pre-testing for my middle school math students sometimes. This does allow me to see where they are before teaching a particular unit. Kind of nice to see where I need to go, but such a pain in the butt to get set up. Especially with this whole graduate school thing!
Kathleen,
ReplyDeleteI think that I might work harder if I knew that I could get things for my classroom if my students did well on tests. Even so...as a teacher I can only go so far until a student has to decide to meet me somewhere with their learning. This kind of makes it a catch 22.
As far as state testing goes, studies have shown that by and large the morning is the best time to test students. What if they have an appointment on a test day? What if breakfast didn't agree with them? What if they are late for school that day? What if...? As you point out, there are so many factors that play into a student doing well on a test.
Giving the principal that much power I think would make most unions at the very least queasy. Most would go absolutely ballistic. What if a new teacher gets a bigger bonus than the teacher that's been there for fifteen years? Believe me, the contract negotiations for that would be scary at the very least. (I'm not an advocate for merit pay, can you tell?)
I love this video. I had seen it before, but now I sent it to my principal and school counselor, what a great way to teach and make people think while entertaining them!
ReplyDeleteIn my previous life, working as director of education of Urban Arts Partnership I was in charge of ,-among many other things- setting teaching artist's pay-scale, hiring, continually train and manage them. We had a staff of 30 teachers. They were actors, dancers, painters, musicians, luthiers, poets, designers, puppeteers, photographers, film-makers, the most creative, inspiring and hard working group of people I have ever shared time with.
It was absolutely fascinating to meet with them as part of our monthly meetings and talk about precisely what was the best way to MOTIVATE them was?
In 2007 we asked this question and the unanimous answer was: Health insurance for us and our families.
So, we became the 2nd organization –after Dream Yard- of our kind to offer health insurance to teaching artists.
I'm convinced that questions like this is what made UA what it is now.
But perhaps the most important motivator not only for the teaching artists but for me as well was PRIDE.
Not only our mission and mission were outstanding, but out relationships were nourishing as well.
I was faced with a challenge, we were supposed to hold this monthly meetings after school time for all teaching artists to meet and participate in various modes of professional development. People weren’t coming. They were tired, they had other commitments. But I know that the quality of our work depended on building and growing relationships with the teaching artists. No educational practice can grow in isolation.
Good food, libations of every kind, music, art sharing nights.
This changed it all, we met every Wednesday night to share delicious foods from high quality catering places, and shared art and stories and this was the best motivator for this group of teachers. Being treated like our former director and friend used to say “like royalty”. Yes, that is the way to get the best out of people by listening to them, to who they are and what they need.
I think that different school districts should be allowed to make different decisions when it comes to things such as “merit pay”. No, not even school districts, no, school leaders should be treated also as creative people and allow them to make those decisions, every school is different, and that is why every school should be autonomous and be able to decide for themselves what is best for their unique staff. That’s my opinion today. What do you guys think?
Aron,
ReplyDeleteI agree with the "catch 22" idea. on the one side, sure we all want to be recognized for our and our student's merits, but let me tell you, sometimes i fel like..REally? give me a break with the tests!!! I work my ---of and then the DRA time comes and the kids get a level 18 instead of 28, and in that case we would not be considered as deserving of merit?
I am scared of how success is measured...
Katleen,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about the trickiness of trying to grade untested classes, but I would argue that I feel the same way with reading, writing , math and science than I feel about PE, music and art.
I really like your idea of rewarding individual teacher’s goals, as they are aligned with or school goals maybe.
I also like your idea of close collaboration between teacher and principal . I wonder if the rewards needs to be monetary.
I feel that both as a teacher and as a manager, the best reward was to be trusted by my leader, and to trust my collaborators.
As a leader my way to reward the merit of the people I was coordinating was to remember and remind them the reasons why they had been invited to our team in the fist place.
I made it a daily practice to remember to be present and learn from them. I admired their unique and amazing talents and the rewards to their merits was to TRUST them and let them CREATE and TEACH as they know best.
This I think is a pretty great intrinsic reward for motivation. More than any monetary reward. I trusted these teaching artists to be independent and create their own lessons.
What we got as a result of the rewards of freedom of creation was high quality work and high quality relationships.
I have a good example of how to unmotivate a teacher:
For 2 weeks I held meeting with parents and had organized with a group of moms from my class a 2 hour interactive class for parents and kids about nutrition and healthy life style and the impact of both on student achievement.
Last week went to my AP and proudly told him that we were all ready to go and
What do you think he said?
Sorry Nachi but you should not teach a class “that is not related to curriculum” during school time, if you still want to do it, go ahead and do it after school.
He knows I like in Keiser and teach in Beaverton. That is not an option.
This I think is something I need to address ASAP with my otherwise very supportive school administration, since these types of things will definitely become a hindrance to me becoming the best teacher I can be.
what do you gust think?
Interesting idea to pay the teacher on what their students eventually do with their lives. The only thing that I see as being a problem with this is if you think about how many teachers touch a child’s life throughout their life then how can you say made the contribution to the child’s life? What if the child had a crummy teacher and then a terrific teacher, then are you not contributing to a bad teacher? Another thing along these lines is that you may be punishing the teacher for not being a good teacher when the child has sources outside that are condemning them, such as poor family lives.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that it would be extremely difficult to base pay on state tests, considering how much the teacher does not have control over, such as family life that could affect how the child is as a student.
Roman,
I understand that you are saying that some teachers need merit pay to stay motivated, but I am not sure that the merit pay would actually make that big of a difference if they are unmotivated to teach the students. They may just get more burnt out or feel angry that they now have to work harder to get the pay they feel like they deserve. They may consider it a slap in the face and they may feel like they will have to work harder for not much more money than they are already working for. Although the idea of improvement being a key to the merit system when you are talking about lower performing schools.
I think that most teachers got into the profession because they are passionate about teaching, not because of the money. I do not think the merit pay system will work because teachers do not have control over which students they get from year to year. In time, the system could have the opposite effect and make teachers less motivated. In regard to state testing, this is the same thing. Classes will vary from year to year and just because a class has a bad year does not mean the teacher did not put in hours of extra work. There have never been consecutive years where students across the state tested exactly the same, so you cannot say that fluctuations are an indication of hard work. In fact, you may find more incidences of cheating on state testing if it meant teachers got a bonus. I suppose merit pay for more recreational classes could be determined by students receiving scholarships or being admitted to 4 year colleges. Again, the talent pool changes from year to year and is not necessarily an indication of hard work on the teacher’s part. Any way you look at it, merit pay has no place in education.
ReplyDeleteDave McKae
Sarah - I also believe that merit pay for teachers would decrease performance. As the video states, if the act requires extra work or thinking, performance diminishes. Having students perform better on state testing is no easy task. There are infinite ways to do that and it is not straightforward. Every teacher may have their own theories about how to prepare or strategies for test taking.
ReplyDeleteElli - you are correct that the circumstances for state testing vary from year to year within schools. It also varies from school to school, such as schools in higher income areas. People in low income areas need great teachers too, so it doesn't make sense to compensate teachers based on performance or even change in performance. Too much of this is out of our control no matter how great of a teacher we are.
ReplyDelete